Do you spend a lot of your energy keeping the people around you happy? Join Krystal and special guest Jamie Taylor as they chat about people pleasing and how they recovered from it. Jamie is a creative director, author, speaker and podcaster.

You can connect with Jamie by following her on socials at @JamieTaylorOnline or visit her website or check out her podcast: Made To Be Free.

You can find out more about Krystal’s coaching and consulting at or follow her on Instagram, Facebook or Youtube all at @FortifyandGrow

Fortify and Grow Podcast - Episode 3 Transcript

Hi, welcome to Fortify and Grow Podcast.

This is Krystal Burke.

And today, I have a really exciting guest on.

She is just someone that I really look up to, and I feel like she has such a wealth of life experience and stories to tell.

And so today, welcome Jamie Taylor.

Thank you, Krystal.

I’ve been looking forward to this conversation.

I think we’re gonna have a lot of fun.

We enjoy talking about all the topics that you bring up.

And so I’m really excited to just see where we get to today and what we uncover.

Yes, I’m so excited to have you.

And if you don’t know anything about Jamie, Jamie’s a creative director.

She’s a wife, a mom, and in her spare time, she is a podcaster, a speaker, and she’s working towards getting a degree in counseling.

She’s passionate about helping people discover the things that are holding them back from a life of abundance and authenticity.

So she has wonderful nuggets of wisdom to share with us today.

I’m so excited.

And the topic that we’re really gonna focus on today is people pleasing.

As I kind of came out of my own story of burnout, this topic for me came up all the time.

And then as I was researching and studying about burnout and what some factors, contributors were to burnout, one of the big things that always came up was people pleasing.

And it seemed like this big overarching theme.

And we’ve talked just in passing about, we feel like we are recovering people pleasers.

And so I’m so glad that you get to come on and be on this with me, because I am so excited to see where this conversation goes.

So thanks for being here.

Right there with you with the people pleasing thing.

You know, a little bit of history on me.

I think partly the family that I was born into was really high achievers.

Like as far as like everything they did was, you know, you always did your best no matter what, no matter how you were feeling.

Like you pushed through, if you were sick, you went to work or you went to whatever, you know, function you were supposed to go to.

I was also raised from the time of my birth in the church, which I love the church, have nothing bad to say about the church.

However, that added to the idea of everything we do, we do with excellence because we represent God.

And that’s a lot of pressure to represent God.

So that started me on a journey of doing my very best from a very young age.

I don’t know if you’ve had the same experience, but.

Yes, I have.

And growing up in the church, I feel like at least my perception of what was taught, I don’t know if that was actually really true as a little one, but my perception all the time was, I just need to be good and kind.

And I felt like I had a lot of training on how to do that and what it looked like to be loving to the people around me.

But I didn’t have a lot of training as to like, when to take care of myself, how to take care of myself.

Is there a time that you like stop showing love and kindness if it’s, you know, where are the boundaries there and where do you stop?

And it was really confusing throughout my whole life and really caused a lot of trouble for me.

And so it can get really confusing.

Did you feel like that was something you dealt with also?


And then, you know, there’s that whole piece of like, you know, in your 20s and in your 30s, you’re trying to figure out who you are.

What is my contribution gonna be to the world?

And then like for in my case, not in everyone’s case, but in my case, I was raising little kids and I was the wife of a pastor and I had all of this stuff happening all simultaneously.

And in my 30s, my story is that I struggled with debilitating anxiety.

And it was in my probably my mid 20s to early 30s, it was the worst and didn’t even get help for it.

And I think what’s interesting is, and I kept it kept it a secret from everybody around me.

And people wonder to this day like how I did it.

And I just say I was a really good actress because people had no clue except my husband was the only one that knew the extent of it.

And what was interesting, I remember it was about 2011.

I had a one year old, my third child was one years old.

And I was at an event and my dad happened to be in town.

And so I was hosting him and I was trying to do all these things.

I had these three little kids.

And one of my friends came up to me at the event and said, you don’t look good.

I think you need to go home right now.

You don’t look right.

And I remember my body just felt like it was shutting down.

And I went home and I think I stayed on the couch for like, I don’t know, something like three days almost, off and on.

I couldn’t move hardly everything, every single part of my body hurt.

And I didn’t know at the time that that was kind of like a nervous breakdown.

Like I thought I was breakdowns were very different, that I didn’t know that’s what they could look like.

So a few weeks later, I went to my doctor to find out what on earth was going on because I was still under total denial, total denial that there was a problem.

And he basically said, because I had been having panic attacks for years, just over and over and over and over again.

He said, you have so depleted your body, the amount of adrenaline that has been, coursing through your body every single time you have these panic attacks and you are not well.

And so he, that was the first time I just remember crying, like I’m so embarrassed, like I felt shame.

I felt so many things and okay.

So that part of my story, it wasn’t the people pleasing, just the people pleasing that led to this incredible, you know, horrific event in my life.

There was so much more, but it definitely did not help the situation because I was going, going, going, going.

I was never allowing myself to just like rest and stop and reflect and figure out what actually was going on inside of me.

That’s crazy.

Yeah, that’s pretty intense.

I had panic attacks also, but not like that to that extent.

And I’ve heard many stories of people feeling like that and really having to kind of like stop life like you’re sick and just rest and recoup for sometimes a long period of time.

What did that look like for you as you were recovering?

How does that happen?

Is it a lot of physical taking care of your body or mentally?

So he first put me on a medication, which that was a whole other story that don’t have time to go into, but there was complications with that.

And then I had to figure some things out with that.

But I was on a medication which I highly recommend people listen to their doctors if they feel like this is the right call for you for a period of time.

And then I went on this journey about five years, I would say, of going to counseling, kind of figuring out ways to tend to my own mental and emotional needs.

And it was this crazy journey of learning what the best yes was for me.

Honestly, and figuring out like my purpose in life, and that my purpose wasn’t going to be to be the very best at, you know, saving the entire world, because that’s what I wanted to do.

I mean, you know, and so I had kind of a Florence Nightingale complex where I just wanted to take care of everybody.

And I was in a lot of stress.

Now that I know more about my personality, I realized that I lived in a constant state of stress.

And, you know, I just didn’t have the self-awareness to understand what was even going on.

Like I look back sometimes and think, wow, like you were such a mess.

Bless your heart.

And you didn’t even know it.

And you were trying so hard.

And on the outside, everybody thought you were fine.

And I was literally dying on the inside.

And so it’s, you know, I’m thankful for the lessons I learned in the dark.

I’m thankful for the things that I learned through suffering because it did produce an incredible amount of resilience and character.

But I did have to go back to square one.

And then it was during that time of counseling that I discovered that I had untreated PTSD from an event that had happened when I was eight.

While I had, yeah.

While I had a lot of what I would call mini traumas, I also had a very traumatic experience where we lived in West Africa and our house was broken into and some armed robbers took my dad hostage by gunpoint.

We had to rush out in the middle of the night and run in for our lives.

Like we were terrified running into the bush.

And we all just kind of went on with life and didn’t take care of that problem.

And it did not emerge until my 30s when all of a sudden I’m sitting in the counselor’s office and we’re trying to figure out what should be a very normal thing to do and I can’t do it because I’m just paralyzed with fear.

And then it leads back to that place, which is what often happens in therapy where you’re like, oh, I didn’t even know that was an issue and it was like buried so far.

So that’s what, I mean, that was kind of where the journey started for me was paying attention to what was going on mentally and emotionally, I would say for sure.

Yeah, wow.

So it seems like that the simple like becoming aware of what’s going on inside of you and letting that come to the surface and come out was almost like a new skill you had to learn and practice.

Would you say that’s true?

Oh, for sure.

Yeah, it is like learning to ride a bike and you just keep trying and you get back up and you might fail a little bit.

Then you’re like, oh, okay.

And even to this day, sometimes I gotta go back and like, figure out how to ride that bike again because I can get back into really bad habits.

And then I have to go, okay, nope, this is leading to a place that could be bad again.

And you kind of learn to know your own limits.

So I think that’s part of it is figuring out your limits.

How much white space do you need as a person?

Like that’s different for every person.

It just is.

I found that it’s just, there’s no formula for this.

Yes, okay.

So I used to use a paper calendar and it was always on my kitchen counter.

And I have now gone on to the digital, which it was so hard for me to make that transition.

Oh, I loved my paper calendar.

Yes, I agree.

But it’s just too much, too many meetings now that I have to have my actual, and I’m learning to love it.

But even with a digital calendar, you can do the same thing where you try to make sure you have enough white space.

So you look at a month, and you actually look at all of your commitments and all of your family stuff and all of your appointments and all the things, and you make sure there’s actually still some white space.

That’s so I literally would look at a monthly calendar, and I would look at the whole thing, and I would say, okay, it’s getting too full.

I can literally look with my own eyes and see that this is getting too full, which would lead me the next month to be more careful.

So it’s this constant recalibration of like, because I just know my limits.

I know that that’s not gonna do, I’m not gonna be okay if it gets too full.

So if I have a full day, but I’ve had a particularly busy, let’s say six days before that, and I think, oh, I could probably fit in a couple of lunch appointments or a couple of this or a couple of that.

If it doesn’t fill my cup up, if it doesn’t fill up that place in my, then I’m not gonna commit to that lunch or I’m not gonna commit to that thing.

I’m gonna spend some time at home, which is where I really get filled up.

Because that’s for me, just puttering around my house, honestly, and cooking in the kitchen and having some music on and just chilling.

That literally fills my cup up so much.

So I’m gonna try to spend a day doing that.

That’s cool.

I love that.

I love that concept of white space.

Yeah, that it’s like physically white on your calendar.

I love it.

Yeah, for me, dealing with panic attacks, I didn’t have too many, but they would really throw me off.

And when I was staying at home with my kids, my husband would be traveling.

So it would just be me at home with the kids.

And I would be like in bed for two to three hours trying to like feel normal again and not be like in complete anxiety.

So it was really, really scary having those.

And for me, actually, what it came to is like, just really holding all these emotions in, holding all my opinions in, like not being vocal with everything that’s going on inside me.

And some of it, yeah, was I didn’t know what was going on.

So pushing it down, like I didn’t wanna know.

But sometimes it was very intentional.

Like, it’s all up to me right now.

My husband’s gone.

Or even when my husband’s here, oh my gosh, if I say that, it might cause an argument.

Or I was just really deathly afraid to have an opinion and really be my true self in fear that he would be mad at me or upset with me.

And it wasn’t just necessarily a result of our unhealthy marriage at that time.

It really came rooted from how I grew up and what I learned about how to function properly in the world and to keep yourself safe.

And so that came up real quick.

I started going to counseling also, which was just so helpful because you’re just, you kind of feel like really helpless at that time.

Like I don’t even know where to go.

And it’s really no fun because it’s easier if I’m like show up and be like, hey, I know what this problem is.

Can you help me solve it?

And it is just completely, you feel out of control when you don’t know what’s going on.

And so if you’re listening and feel that, I want you to know that’s completely normal and it’s okay to just show up to a counseling session or the doctor and be like, I have no clue.

I feel stupid, but I need help.

Oh my word.

Because I think that’s where everybody gets to this uncomfortable place before we actually make changes in our life.

Because we just want to believe that we are strong and resilient, can handle everything.

And I think that’s what ran through my mind a lot of, come on, people do this every day, they stay at home with their kids, I should be able to handle this, stuff like that.

And it was interesting when my counselor kind of brought up, you need to start vocalizing what you want and what you need.

And I don’t know why, but I chose simple things at first, because I thought, I recognize like, this is hard, I have to go back and learn this skill over again.

And so what I did is I decided, okay, I’m going, I want to go on a date with my husband this weekend.

So I’m going to talk to him about it.

But before I talk to him, I’m going to decide where I want to go so that I know where I can propose like where we should go.

Oh, nice.

And no joke, it took me five hours to decide.

I mean, all day long, I was just doing chores around the house.

And I’m like, okay, should we go to this restaurant or this restaurant?

I’m like, I don’t know.

Maybe I should just like pick like three or four options and then like propose them to me.

No, Krystal, you have to come with like one thing you want.

And it took me, I mean, hours and hours and hours.

That’s how like, not only avoidant of it, but how I was so not used to becoming aware of what I wanted or what I needed.

And it was like baby steps.

Like you said, learning to walk all over again, because practicing being aware of what I want, like I didn’t even know how to do that.

So how was I gonna be honest with my husband about what I want when I didn’t even know what I want?

So this theme of honesty for me is really came up, not only being honest with myself about what I wanted, even if it was different than what he wanted, but being honest with him and being able to share it.

And it was definitely scary at times.

I remember my counselor was like, you need to tell him this thing, why haven’t you thought about talking to him?

And I was just like, her face, she probably would have thought I was being beaten or something.

I was not by the way, but that’s the fear that came over me because it was just felt like there’s no way I can possibly do that.

And it also came out in other ways, people pleasing in particular, not only my marriage, but socially, like the amount of anxiety I had socially, I don’t know if you connected with this, but I was just trying to be what everybody else wanted me to be all the time so that I felt like if everybody likes me, then I’m going to be okay.

So it was like always reading the room.

What should I say?

What should I do?

Am I looking happy enough?

Am I looking welcoming enough?

Meanwhile, I’m so like stressed about this in my brain that I end up not saying much because I can’t decide what’s the right thing to say.

I can’t think quick enough to keep up with the conversations.

And so then I end up just being kind of like quiet and which is not bad in and of itself, but it really wasn’t letting the world or anybody get to know who I truly was.

And I feel like that’s something that people pleasing really robs us of.

Did you experience that at all with that anxiety that was kind of like running all the time?

Social situations were one of the worst places for me because I was doing the exact same thing, always reading the room and always like, okay.

And what you said is so true, it robs the world of the person that you are.

And, oh my goodness, people pleasing becomes almost like this set of armor that you put on that is not you.

And it’s just so sad because that’s why it’s so important to break out of it.

It’s so important to break out of it.

Because, oh, and you and I were kind of joking about this the other day or talking through this the other day.

It’s not like we want to be jerks.

It’s not like we want the world to learn to be jerks.

It’s like, because there is a level of, you know, just common decency and kindness.

And you don’t always, you don’t wanna show up at an event and just ruin the event for everybody in the room if you’re having a bad day.

So there’s like this, you know what I mean?

Like there’s this general decency.

But if you’re always showing up as literally a different person than you are, people can totally see the incongruence in you.

They can tell you are not operating out of who you really are and something fills off.

And so then you’re not even able to effectively do the things that you wanna do and the purposes that you set out to do.

Like all of us have something we want to offer to the world.

And how sad that we would stifle that by trying to pretend to be somebody else in order to make somebody else happy.

With totally, quite frankly, they’re probably not even thinking about.

That’s what’s funny about this.

Like most people are not like, oh, I need you to be this person.

Now some people are, let’s be real.

There’s some people that do that.

But the vast majority of people are not like, I need you to fit this little box.

And yet we try to climb in the box on our own when nobody’s asking us to do that.

Sorry, excuse all the metaphors, but you know, we’re gonna-

No, I love it, I love it.

Hi, I hope you’re enjoying this episode.

In case you don’t know, I am a life coach with Fortify Coaching.

And I help people create one small change at a time that creates sustainable rhythms in their life.

And if you’re connecting with anything in this episode, reach out to me for a free chemistry call.

You can do this by going to my website,, and click on the contact button.

You can also check out my downloads, which helps you incorporate rest and gratitude in your life.

And sign up for my newsletter, which will have tips and tricks that may not be in this podcast.

So anyways, thanks for listening, and let’s get back to the good stuff.

One thing that really helped me was Brené Brown’s book, The Gift of Imperfection.

And it’s really interesting.

I know it sounds like it’s about imperfection, but it seems like people pleasing imperfectionism kind of, you know, go hand in hand.

Like, you can’t have one without the other.

And so I love, she has this quote in there that I love.

And she says, if I look perfect or do everything perfect, I can avoid or minimize the painful feelings of blame, judgment or shame.

And I feel like that’s what we’re really trying to avoid in those situations, blame, judgment and shame.

And we will do anything in that moment.

Just tell me what you want me to be.

Just tell me how to show up so that I can avoid those fearful things of blame, judgment and shame.

Oh, yeah.


Blame is a big one for me.

Well, I was going to say too, what leads me to a place of anxiety and sometimes even teetering on burnout feelings, is when I am putting something off that I know needs to be done.

It can literally or like if I’m putting off an important conversation, kind of tying up a loose end or something like that.

And a lot of times if I go to the root of why I’m not taking care of that, it’s because of worrying about guilt and shame.

It’s worrying about what if this conversation doesn’t go the way I’d really like it to.

I have no control over that.

And if it can’t be perfect, I don’t want to have that conversation.

And so I put it off.

And oh my goodness, I have put off conversations before so long, and finally I just get to the place where I’m like, okay, forget it.

I just have to go in and do this and take care of this because agony is putting on me.

But there’s a perfectionism piece there.

If I can’t do it perfectly, if I can’t say the things I want to say perfectly, and if they won’t understand me perfectly, especially when we’re talking about crucial conversations, like I think about what you were talking about with your husband, it’s so simple.

He really cared why we were going to go to eat, and yet that was one of the things you had to be so specific, like, no, I’m going to do this?

I mean, how funny?

That’s how we live though, is overthinking things that maybe even the other person’s not really even worried about, and yet it’s our own perfectionism and our worry about blame and all the things.

And at the end of the day, if it does go wrong, we will also learn something from that.

So it’s okay.

But we don’t want to do that.

We don’t want to go through that pain.

Yep, exactly.

And I think that was a huge thing to overcome, is to really realize that I don’t have any control over what happens on the other end or what the other person feels for me.

But it’s still like the best case scenario is for me to show up and be honest.

Like that’s the possible best case scenario.

Out of all the scenarios that I could come up with, of things that could go wrong in that moment.

And to realize that it’s still going to be okay.

Like if we run those scenarios through our head, we really would come up with that conclusion.

I think every time like it’s still going to be okay, even if I really fail or even if I screw this up or have like all this emotion that I can’t control in the midst of it.

And if it’s not coming out right, or I don’t know how to say it right, or I said it wrong, like what I’m realizing is it’s just it’s okay.

And we’re probably harder on ourselves than everyone else is around us.

Oh, yeah.

So the more we can be kind, first of all, to ourselves, then it’s a lot easier coming into those situations and being honest when we’re definitely afraid of it.

So excuse me.

This, I feel like everything we’ve just talked about is like this layout of this huge process that we have both been in because really, any one of those 10 minute long segments that we just talked about could have taken me like a year or two to really walk out.

And so if you’re hearing this and wanting to tackle this, just take it one little step at a time, because it’s really so much of identity, like who we are in relation to the world.

And it touches on a little about our value and our worth.

And do we think we’re worthy of having an opinion?

Are we important just like everybody else?

I think one fear we always have, people pleasers tend to think that they’re selfish, or they’re just going to like ruin everything and cause trouble for everybody around them.

And I almost had to tell myself like Krystal, you are so far into people pleasing, you cannot be selfish right now.

And it sounded so weird, but I was like, this sounds so prideful, but I had to tell myself, it’s not possible for you to be selfish right now because you are so deeply afraid of being it that I had to say, this is not being selfish, just share your opinion.

And not that like my opinion was more important than my husband’s or anybody else’s.

But it’s like, it is just enough value as his that I come to the table, he comes to the table, and we both share what we want and then start from there.

It is sometimes hard to know when you’re on this journey if you’re being selfish or if you’re caring for your deeper self.

It can be difficult to know the difference because you just, I mean, and so much of this stuff is stuff that we have learned to do from the time we were very young.

Even stuff like where you fit in your family, like birth order and just the way you relate to your family and your parents and the people around you and your community, this plays into it.

So it’s such a deeper conversation and I know there’s probably some people out there that are like, well, why do I need to worry about this?

I’m just gonna live my life and I’m just gonna figure it out along the way.

And that’s fine.

Some people are okay with that.

I’m not one of those people.

I’m one of those people I value getting down to the very, the deeper places where I don’t even understand myself and I’ve got to figure some stuff out.

And I have to figure out why I do things the way I do them.

It’s such a value of mine.

I want to know why.

I want to know the deeper story.

And so one of the things that I do to kind of check and see, okay, am I going towards selfishness or is this self care?

Is this a good, healthy self care?

Is just checking my motives?

Like literally, as a Christ follower, bringing my motives before God and saying, okay, you know me better than I know myself, so can you just show me?

Do I have selfish motives here?

Am I really…

Is this about self preservation?

Because that’s…

Who cares about self preservation at the end of the day?

That’s not our goal in life.

Oh, see how well I can protect myself.

You know, so knowing my motives, knowing my purpose in life, like actually, you know, we talk a lot in Christian circles about calling, and I think we kind of missed the boat a little bit because really, I mean, just being who God created us to be in a loving and kind and gentle and generous way is one of the best callings.

It doesn’t matter where you do it, how you do it, you know, all that kind of thing.

So when I talk about purpose, I’m not saying like, oh, I got to figure out if I’m going to be a brain surgeon or I’m going to be a, you know, bicycler, bicycle maker.

You know, I’m talking about just purpose in general.

And then, like I said, knowing your best, yes.

I think figuring out, okay, what are those healthy boundaries?

Not the weird boundaries that like are such the rage right now.

Like, I mean, boundaries have gotten in some circles out of control where people are putting boundaries on somebody.

Somebody said something they didn’t like the way they said it, and so they have to set a boundary.

And it’s like, yeah, y’all, welcome to the human race.

We are going to set things that people don’t like, and we can’t just cancel everybody that says something we don’t like.

So I’m not talking about those kind of toxic boundaries.

I’m talking about healthy boundaries where you know yourself, you know what you need, and you begin to figure it out.

When one of my, when I was at some of my lowest times, I discovered that a hot bath at the end of a day for an hour was what I needed to survive.


And so my husband and I made that happen where almost every day that was, it did something to regulate my nervous system.

And so you figure out those things that care for you, fill you back up, and then you can go on to do what, you know, you were put on this earth to do.

I think that’s, you know, part of the journey.

Yes, I agree.

That purpose and calling piece was the same for me.

I really, because a lot of this happened, you know, within my marriage being home a lot and not having a lot of communication because I wasn’t connecting, my husband and I’s relationship was really a big strain during that time and we were kind of overcoming a lot of unhealth.

And so what I found I needed to do is really get out of the house because I was home all day with the kids and I was kind of like, I have to do something right now that is going to bring me joy.

And again, it took, I’m going to be honest, it took like two months for me to like think through some things I wanted to try again because I was so not used to thinking about what I’d want.

I’d have these like passing thoughts, but I’d forget about them.

And then when I went to think through what even hobbies do I want to try, I couldn’t figure it out.

And so it was literally every day like Krystal, you have to figure something else for your sanity.

Really, it was like I was in a desperate place of like, I just have to figure out a hobby just so that I will be okay tomorrow.

And so I remember I signed up for a class at Joanne’s to do sewing, because I was like, I don’t know, that kind of sounds fun.

And so I did that.

And I think wedding planning sounded fun.

So I found some wedding planners to volunteer and how ended up absolutely loving that and finding that that was like a skill I didn’t know I had.

And it was so fun this season of exploring.

And it came out of desperation, but it lit me up.

Like I came home from like just moving tables and chairs around at a wedding, like with more joy than I had in years.

And I was like, there is something in here.

That I didn’t know was there.

And it was touching on some of the like Colleen, I think a little where I feel like a lot of those little things can bring us so much joy and it touches on our purpose and who we’re created to be.

And so I did that for a while and I also found out I love baking cakes and I started a little cake baking business for that season of my life.

And it was just an exploration of finding out about me.

And it was so important because again, I can’t bring me to the world if I don’t know me.

And so I am it’s just no matter how little we think it is, it ends up being the light God’s way of just showing us the way out of the darkness.

And I look back over these last 10 years coming out of that.

And I’m like, well, he has walked me through, you know, even just baking cakes and wedding planning.

Yes, like he has me through those things and has really brought me light in the darkness and joy in the midst of chaos, like utter chaos and desperation.

And so, yes, if you can find anything, hobbies, like get to know yourself, what you want to do.

And if you have any inkling or like you don’t know why, you’re like, I don’t know why I love this thing.

Yeah, I just have so much joy in it.

Like, just go do it.

It doesn’t matter if you don’t know why.

It doesn’t matter if you just love cleaning toilets.

And you’re just like, yes, I love helping people clean houses.

I just want to go clean up.

Just go do it.

One thing I’m noticing as we’re talking is this idea of like, you said, self-preservation, you know, it’s like when we’re people pleasing and so worried about being imperfect, like we’re just focused so inward and we can’t think about anybody around us.

It’s like this weird thing.

We’re not selfish, but we’re so internal.

We can’t, it’s too much to like think outside.

And so really the answer, the way out, looks a lot like getting out of ourself, like thinking about not what other people think about us, but how we can love them, how we can…

And I know that’s messy because I think the whole reason why we fall into people pleasing is because we want to love the people around us and we want to do it so well.

But it’s this weird like motive, like you said, of am I doing this to self-preservate or am I doing this because I want to care for these people.

And that’s hard to know.

So I feel like it’s part of the process of getting to know yourself.

But it is.

And you know, it does lead to…

I find it leads to resentment.

You feel like you’re being an advantage of when you’re always thinking, you know, about like, okay, if I do this, what, how will it affect this other person?

And then what it ends up leading to in so many cases is just this numbing.

Because you can’t live that way.

You just can’t, the human body can’t do it.

And so then you have to find some way.

That’s why I think we have so much addiction in all forms.

It’s literally all forms because that’s one of the things I find interesting.

We focus a lot on addictions like, you know, drugs, alcohol, what pornography and different things like that, but even social media and like stuff like that.

But there are, I mean, even just something like a process addiction or, or shopping too much or like, there are so many ways that, you know, that it’s like, we’re not having the real conversation about why that’s happening.

There’s always a deeper reason because to feel like you have to check out of life says something about your life.


And I think instead of being like, sometimes we’re like, okay, we got to like, oh, if I take this really long vacation, it’s going to fix it.

No, it won’t.

Actually, it won’t.

That big down vacation might be wonderful.

It’s not going to fix your everyday life.

So the question is, how do I organize my week and my month and my year to be both fruitful and restful?

I mean, it’s just the way that you have to do it.

And whether it takes work, though, because in a society that rewards being your best at all time and hard work and like, you know, this strong even like even in the sports world, you know, I have a son that plays basketball and who gets rewarded in those scenarios?

The top athletes, the best team.

And while that’s great, I have no problem with that.

Sports is a wonderful way to learn about life.

It can become such an obsession of always becoming the best and being the best.

And then the pressure that the parents put on the children.

You can just kind of watch how our society views hard work and effort.

And yeah, while I have no problem with excellence, I believe in it strongly.

We still have to look at our life as a whole.

Yes, say sometimes excellence is resting a whole day doing almost nothing.

Yeah, that’s a really good thing.

I love everything that we’ve talked about today.

I really wanted to hear and I want you to share about your books that you have and your podcast.

Can you tell us how to grab a hold of those and learn more from you?


Well, there’s a couple ways you can connect with me.

I have a website,, and then my Instagram is JamieTaylorOnline.

So that’s a good place.

Either one of those is a good place to find me.

I did write a book about my experience with anxiety, depression, and it’s called Finding Brave.

You can find that on Amazon.

And then I wrote a book for children who, it’s really for anyone, any kid, but specifically those have gone through grief, loss or trauma.

And it’s called Sweet Dreams, Sweet One Goodnight.

And you can find that on Amazon as well.

And then, yes, I am a podcaster.

And with my dear friend Mackenzie, we started the Made To Be Free podcast.

And so you can actually find our website.

We’re on Spotify and Apple.

Anywhere you can get your podcasts.

But we loved, I just love talking about the concept of freedom in all areas of life.

Because when we are free, we just live in a completely different way.

Where it’s not, you know, we’re not just so constricted by things like this.

Like people’s opinions of us and worrying about all these things.

We just are able to be us, authentically us.

And so that’s what I’m always working for.

Trying to learn to be more, just be more me.

Well, I’ll have that info also in the description below.

So check that out.

Check out Jamie.

Go to her website and check out her books and podcasts.

It’s really awesome.

So I’ve loved it.

So thank you so much for being on.

And I’m sure I’ll see you soon.

I hope you enjoyed this episode today.

I have a free gift for you.

It is a guide of eight ways to incorporate rest into your busy life.

You can find it on under downloadables and I hope it’s helpful.

Have a great day.

Notice: The above transcript is copyright of Fortify Coaching and Krystal Burke. Content may not be copied and pasted, re-used, re-destributed or otherwise used without attribution and a link to this website without written permission. 

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