In the first episode of the Fortify & Grow Podcast, Krystal Burke talks about what she seeks to help her clients cultivate the most: fortitude. In this brief episode, she describes what fortitude is and what it means to grow in it. She also shares the heart behind her coaching and consulting practice, Fortify Coaching, and what you can expect in the coming episodes of Fortify & Grow.

Fortify and Grow Podcast - Episode 2 Transcript

Hi, welcome to Fortify and Grow Podcast.

I am Krystal Burke, and today I am so excited.

I’ve chosen a special guest for this episode who is near and dear to my heart.

Her name is Tammy McOmber, and she is an identity and enneagram coach.

She is the founder of Original Design Coaching, where she helps individuals discover their authentic selves alongside with others to impact the world for positive change.

And on top of that, she is in the process of writing a book to help others discover their identity, know their value, and walk in their purpose.

So welcome, Tammy.

I’m so excited to have you.

I am so excited to be here.

This is awesome.

I originally wanted Tammy to come on because for the last few years, hanging around her, I have learned so much from her knowledge about the enneagram and specifically on this topic of pace.

And what I mean by pace is how fast we move through the world.

It’s something that I had never noticed or picked up on in all my years up until knowing you, Tammy.

And so I’ve learned so much from her, and I wanted her to just come and talk to me about this topic because it has personally been life-changing for me and has really helped me have a lot of compassion for myself, but also create a life that really allows me to be who God created me to be.

So I’m so excited about this topic.

So Tammy, tell us a little about the Enneagram for those of you that have never heard about this.

Tell us a little more about it.


I can tell you the first time I ever heard the word Enneagram, I said what a lot of people say, and that is the Enneagram what?

Like it’s a weird word, but Enneagram in the Greek literally means nine and gram means graph.

So it’s a nine pointed graph is what it is.

And it’s a typology tool.

Everybody, we fall within under one of the nine numbers.

Now some people might say like that’s absolutely not possible.

Don’t put me in a box.

Like there’s no way there’s only nine different types in the world.

But the beautiful thing is that every single number has all kinds of different variations under it.

So yes, it is possible to be able to be put under one of the nine.

This typology tool really kind of came to America and became really popular, really became popular in 2018 when Susan Stabeel and Ian Cron wrote The Road Back to You.

But it’s been in America since the 60s, and it really is just nine different ways that we see the world.

And when we understand what way we see the world, like what way I see the world and you see the world, then all of a sudden, we stop putting so much pressure on ourselves to be like the other person, right?

Like we are just okay to be like we are because that’s the way that God made us to be.

And so we find freedom and we find belonging and understanding this and we stop comparing, because comparison just steals joy.

That’s what it does.

And God created us to have an abundant life.

And so if comparison is always stealing joy, we can’t live in the abundant life God made us to be.

So it’s this cool tool that helps us understand why we do what we do, because oftentimes I didn’t understand my why before I learned this.


And I personally love it because out of all the different personality profiles, it seems the easiest to remember and grab a hold of.

And so it’s been fun hearing you talk about it in a lot of different conversations around me.

I just love it.

This topic of personality, I can’t get enough of.

So we will talk a lot about this, and every guest that comes on will be sharing their Enneagram number, and it’ll just be a fun little facet of this podcast.

So tell me, what number are you?

I am a two, Krystal.

Do you want me to tell you what that means?

Yes, because I’m sure no one else knows.


So some teachers and instructors at the Enneagram like to give each number a name.

So if we go that route, the two is often called the helper.

I really don’t honestly really love that name.

I do like to help people, but I feel like that’s like putting, well, as I say this myself, putting myself in a box.

I’m like, it’s so much more than just like I like to help people.

Two’s really deeply care and love people.

We want everyone to succeed, and we can really see value and worth in everybody.

It’s a beautiful, beautiful gift that God gave us.

Having said that, just like every other number out there, we have our own struggles.

So while all two’s can see value and worth in everybody else, all two’s really struggle to see their own value and worth.

And so to be able to find mine, I go out and I do all the things for all of you guys to make sure you’re all doing good.

And I get honestly very prideful, and I start to think, wow, look at all that I’m doing for them.

It’s a very kind of backhanded thing the enemy does like that.

We don’t think it’s pride, but it’s a thousand percent pride.

So yeah, we are very big promoters of others.

We’re very, very loving and caring and kind.

But deep down, if we’re not being intentional and doing it for God, we’re really doing it for ourselves.

And so that’s that pride factor that comes into play.

So yeah, I’m an Enneagram too.

I love that.

And you seem to be like the person that people seem to gravitate toward for help, and they just want to share their life story with you.

And I love that personally about you.

But I’ve seen it in many, in all of the people I’ve been around have always done that with you.

And it seems like that’s a characteristic of it too.


We love people.

And one of the ways that we love people is we ask questions.

Very few of us don’t actually want to talk about ourselves.

And so in order for me to love you well, I need to know you and to get to know you, I ask questions.

And then the beautiful thing about having the knowledge of the Enneagram that I have is as you answer these questions, even if I don’t necessarily know your number, I can start to in my own head kind of just not give you a number, but place you in certain ones that helps me then know the next question to ask you.

And then I get to know you deeper and get to know you more.

And the more I do that, the better I can love you.

It’s just like circular thing that we got going on.

Yeah, I love it.

That’s cool.

Well, I’m a nine.

And so that my title is peacemaker.

And so I will go out of my way to people, please, in an unhealthy version to keep the peace around me.

I will sacrifice myself for the sake of doing that.

But it also means that I have the ability to know how to read the room a little and get an idea of how I can support and be there for people and bring peace in the midst of chaos.

So is there anything else you want to share about nines in general?

Not just me, but you know, you have a lot of nines in your world.

I have a lot of nines in my world.

Yes, I love nines.

My hubbies are nine.

My daughters are nine.

A lot of my good friends are nines.

I love nines.

And nines and twos in lots of ways can actually mistype because we’re really similar.

We both really are looking outside of ourselves towards other people all of the time.

There’s some differences between us too.

So nines really are peacekeepers and makers.

They have the ability to see all the different perspectives of all the different numbers way better than any of the rest of us can.

And they really, really, really hate conflict.

Nines hate conflict.

They’re not even quite aware of how much they hate it until they start to learn this stuff.

And so in order to avoid conflict, they don’t really honestly share their deep opinions very often.

They don’t even really, unless they’re getting healthier, know what their opinions even are because they’re so busy trying to shove down any possible conflict that can come up.

So for instance, if you ask a nine where they want to go eat and they’re with a crowd that they don’t know very well, that’s not kind to a nine at all.

So they’re always trying to shove down the conflict inside themselves and make sure there’s no conflict in the room.

This in turn makes them very tired often.

So nines tend to withdraw because they’re trying to escape that.

And some people who don’t have or don’t know this about nines, they don’t really understand them very well.

They’re like, what’s their problem?

Why are they not engaging?

But they’re really just trying to make sure that everything is okay.

And in the sense of that, what then happens for the rest of us is we love having nines in our world because they will be there for us, but sometimes they can kind of fall in the background, and then we tend to not see them as well.

And nines fill that.

They fill that to the very depths of themselves.

They want nothing more than just to be deeply seen.

So they have this internal thing that’s inside of them where they’re like, gosh, I want to be seen, but don’t see me too much.

It’s always kind of going on because they’re scared of what will happen if we see them too much.

Yeah, nines are awesome.

They’re just super awesome.

I guess I fill all those things to the core, most definitely.

Well, you use this tool in coaching, and this is not your only focus in coaching.

It isn’t just to help someone find their Enneagram number.

In what other capacities do you use this?

Yeah, that’s a great question.

So for a long time, I just called myself an Enneagram coach because that is one of the ways that I am certified is through that.

And it’s, again, a really, really helpful tool.

But what I discovered, not very far into it, is it was often used as a party favor.

People would figure out what number they were, and then they’d be like, well, who on this number?

And then they’d honestly use it as an excuse for all the things that they do.

Now, it’s an awareness of what we do, but it should never be an excuse for what we do.

It really is knowledge so that we can change the way that we do things if we want to change them to become more and more of who God made us to be.

So the Enneagram is a wonderful tool to have in your pocket.

It’s great knowledge to have to be able to understand when you’re stressed or when you’re doing really well, and the past stop doing the patterns that you don’t want to do in your life anymore.

But if it’s not used for that and just a party favor, it doesn’t really have a lot of use in your life.

So I’ve discovered that I always, when I teach it, I combine it with the gospel, because really God’s the answer.

This is just a tool.

God is the answer.

So I think often of Romans 7, when Paul’s talking, and this is my paraphrasing, of course, but he just keeps saying, I keep doing what I don’t want to doing it.

I do it anyhow, and I don’t know why I’m doing it, but I’m doing it.

That’s the beauty behind the Enneagram.

Combined with the gospel, the Enneagram helps you see what you’re doing and why you’re doing it.

And then you take it to Jesus and say, Lord, I don’t want to do this thing anymore.

Can you help me with it?

And he is always faithful to be able to do that.

So that’s a great way that I use it and pair it with the gospel.

Another thing I’ve really, really learned as I’ve been coaching is it works wonders when you do it with other people.

So I can teach all day long how different numbers respond to the world.

But when you get a group of like six to twelve people in a room and there are these different numbers, and I’m talking about a one, and there’s a one sitting right there and I ask the one questions, everybody will learn so much more from that one answering than me giving all the answers for a one.

And they all learn about each other.

So all of a sudden, I now understand why you do things differently than I do.

And I also understand that it’s not one’s right and one’s wrong.

Like it’s just different ways of doing it.

And in the end, we need all the ways.

Like we need all of them.

So God created us to do life in community.

He created us to do it with other people on purpose because that’s how He does it.

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

He does it in community.

He created us to do the same.

So when we learn it in community, something really, really cool happens.

And we all of a sudden have a grace and an understanding about other people like we never had before.

That’s cool.

I love that.

And as I think about what you were originally talking about, how we kind of can take the Enneagram and kind of use it as an excuse for continuing our bad behavior.

There’s been so many times where friends or my husband, we’ve come across different personality profiles and you find out, oh, this is why I procrastinate, or this is why I get angry easily, or this is why I withdraw easily.

And it can kind of feel reassuring like, oh, yay, there’s nothing wrong with me.

It’s just who I was created to be.

But then it feels a little like, well, yeah, I feel better about it, but that doesn’t mean that I get to just do nothing about it.

I love that you’re encouraging and pushing people into more that God has for them because there is so much more.

Yeah, because we’re called to grow.

We’re called to become more and more of who God made us to be.

But in order to do that, if we still keep doing the same exact patterns, we don’t grow when everything’s the same, and we don’t grow, at least I don’t grow, when everything’s easy.

I grow when hard.

I grow when things are challenging.

I grow when I’m outside of my comfort zone.

So yeah, the Enneagram gives me the knowledge of seeing how I’m doing it, but it also gives me the knowledge of how I can grow.

And it’s hard.

It’s not an easy thing to do.

So go into all of this, knowing this is worth it, a million percent worth it, to become more and more who God made us to be.

But it will be difficult to do.

Yeah, definitely.

I would love to move into this topic of pace because it is something I’ve learned in light of the Enneagram.

And so that’s why we’re kind of coming off the Enneagram.

This podcast isn’t necessarily about the Enneagram in itself, but it gives us this framework to understand how we are different than each other and why we’re different than each other and why that’s actually a good thing rather than feeling like we’re supposed to keep up with everybody else.

As a nine, I’ve learned my pace is slower than everybody.

And not only just like me moving physically through the world is slower, but my decision making is slower.

The amount of tasks I’m able to get done in a day is much less than it seems the other people around me.

And I remember as I was a stay-at-home mom with my kids at home and having other moms around me that were…

I was doing life with, it felt like life was so much harder for me because I wasn’t able to keep up.

I needed more alone time.

I couldn’t clean my house as fast as everyone around me.

And it was just this area of my life that I had a lot of negative self-talk around, and I beat myself up a lot about it.

And so I’d love for you to share a little about what that actually looks like for different numbers because as a slower nine, I love that we get to talk about this because twos are the opposite.

So share a little about what that looks like within the different numbers or maybe a general overview of what the options are within there.

Yeah, I absolutely can.

And you’re not wrong.

I will say every number, like what you’re talking about with comparing in your house and kids and all of that, every number will do that.

Like we’ll all compare to that person over there and how they’re doing something differently than we are, and it’s better in some way.

And yeah, I’ll go back to a comparison, really does still joy.

And especially, I swear, as females, we’re really, really bad at it.

Like we always think someone else is better than us in some way, and that’s just not true.

But especially when it does come to this pace, I really cannot tell you how many times in my life I’ve heard, I don’t know why they can do more than I can do in a day.


I’ve said that and thought that a million times, and I’ve been like, there must be something wrong with me.

Like, how do they do it?

There’s nothing wrong with you.

And I’ve said that, like you say, I’m the opposite of you.

But no, I have said that many times, because there are people who move much faster and much, much more efficiently than I do.

For sure there are.

So in Enneagram language, there is oftentimes the different numbers are broke down into groups of three, and it happens in all kinds of different combinations.

One of the combinations is called stances.

And stances have to do with certain centers of intelligence that we have repressed and ones that we lean into more.

And that’s a bunch of stuff.

But all I have to say, it causes us to move at different paces.

So there’s this, I’ll start with one.

So ones, twos, and sixes, we’re all in the same stance.

And we all tend to move, not super fast, but we tend to move at a very steady, ongoing pace, like we’re going to keep going, and we’re going to keep making things happen, and it’s going to be a very progressive movement all of the time.

We don’t tend to like things, we don’t tend to like really, really, really long to-do lists.

And so we’re going to check those things off.

Now, certain ones of us love lists more than others.

I personally am a list person, but if I’m not productive, I feel like I didn’t, like there’s no point.

Like I have to be productive, it makes me really happy to be productive in a day.

So yeah, I tend to, I can be very much like a person who like wants to do too much.

Again, especially not even mine, but I’ll want to take on yours also.

And so will ones and so will sixes.

So our pace will go a little bit faster than other numbers because of that.

And then you have fours, fives, and nines.

So you’re, Krystal, you’re in that group there.

And you guys are more the withdrawn stance.

And so in general, you guys don’t move as fast in certain ways.

Now, again, every single individual looks differently in this.

So some of you guys might move really fast in certain ways and slower in others.

Or you might move like really fast for three days and then like need to just take a break for two days and like veg out.

So it just looks different for every single person.

But four fives and nines, by nature, you tend to withdraw more instead of push in more.

And for each of you, it can look a little bit different on how you then process while you’re withdrawing.

But oftentimes, the withdrawing is, I’m going to probably make up a word here, a feeling of stuck in this, like I don’t know the next step.

And so because I don’t know the next step, I’m just going to sit here until the next step reveals itself to me.

That doesn’t often happen.

Like it doesn’t magically reveal itself until you take a step.

And so that’s often the conflict inside of a four or five or a nine that keeps their pace a little bit slower, is they’re just kind of looking almost outside of themselves for the next step.

And it’s this thing they have to learn in order to be able to do it differently.

Now keep in mind, no pace is right or wrong.

It’s not bad to move fast.

It’s not bad to move slow.

It’s not bad to be stuck somewhere in the middle, which is where I am.

None of them are wrong.

And so when we stop looking at that person saying they’re doing it better, we can rest in who and how we do it.

Like if I need to go take a nap every day, I’ll take a nap.

Like there’s no shame in that.

That’s just part of who I am and how I’m wired.

Hi, I hope you’re enjoying this episode.

In case you don’t know, I am a life coach with Fortify Coaching, and I help people create one small change at a time that creates sustainable rhythms in their life.

And if you’re connecting with anything in this episode, reach out to me for a free chemistry call.

You can do this by going to my website and click on the contact button.

You can also check out my downloads, which helps you incorporate rest and gratitude in your life, and sign up for my newsletter, which will have tips and tricks that may not be in this podcast.

So anyways, thanks for listening, and let’s get back to the good stuff.

And also, being an introvert or an extrovert plays into every single one of these two, and every number can be either one of those.

And so some of us who get really filled up by people, like we’re going to be out amongst the people moving way faster than people who are introverted who don’t want to do that.

That changes pace too.

The last grouping, and these guys, they just move.

They just move.

They are threes, sevens, and eights.

And they, the way it’s worded is they move against the world.

They probably wouldn’t feel like that, but that’s what gives them their gumption, their go-to.

They are out to make crap happen, and they will.

They absolutely will.

Three, sevens, and eights move at a pace that the rest of us look at and think, oh, my gosh.

So when I was saying, like, how do they possibly do that earlier?

How can they do all that?

Yeah, three, sevens, and eights can do all that.

Their cognitive ability just thinks they think way faster than the rest of us, and they’re very, very good at executing what they think, like, within no time at all.

And they’re beyond that excellent at recruiting people to do it with them.

So they have an idea often, and they’ll be like, hey, this is an idea, and people around will be like, great, let’s do it.

And they’ll be like, okay, have fun, I’ll oversee it.

And they do.

And they support, and they’re in part of it, but they’re really, really good at just making things happen.

The downside is if you’re keeping that all the time, that’s not sustainable.

And that’s where I’m sure you’ll see is your clients, like a lot of these guys come to you and be like, I don’t know what’s wrong.

Like, I’m not doing any good anymore because for a while this fills them up.

It gives them energy.

The more they move, the faster they go, the more energy they get.

It’s kind of this constant thing, but nobody can sustain that long term.

And so they will burn out.

And that’s why it’s important that we understand that, yeah, we’re paid.

We have these different paces that we do.

But in the end, we all need to rest however God calls us to rest in him.

And if we’re not resting in him, we will be able to not function anymore.

And one way or another, something will happen where we’ll have to stop.

And I love that picture you give because it’s interesting how opposite it is from me, the last dance you were talking about, because I can burn out really easily by just bombarding myself with shame.

And I end up just kind of feel small and in the corner like, how am I going to do this?

And I can’t keep up with everybody else.

And the more that I try or the more that nines try or those different numbers you mentioned in that stance, we can burn ourselves out really fast just by trying to keep up with the rest of y’all.

And so the more that I have kind of given myself permission to be slower, I set my own expectations differently.

So when I’m like, gosh, I only got this much accomplished today, I have to stop and be like, wait a second.

But that was a lot for you.

And that’s okay.

And this phrase that I’ve learned has been just so powerful for me.

And it’s the phrase of take all the time you need to do what you need to do.

And then whenever I do that, I end up accomplishing not only accomplishing things, but I feel like I have joy in the midst of it, not just, okay, I’m going to do it as fast as I can.

It’s not enough feeling like bad, even though I’ve accomplished something, feeling not good enough, even at the end of accomplishing something.

And so yeah, I have just loved learning about this for me because it has just allowed me to give myself so much grace.

And that alone gives me more energy, right?

Because I’m not like stealing energy from myself by like, you know, all that negative self talk.

So what does that look like for you, Tammy, as a two?

That is a much quicker pace.

What are some challenges that you have personally within your relationships and whatnot?

What does that look like for you?

Oh, good golly.


So like I said, I’m married to a nine.

So in our little world, we move, we move at very different paces.

So for a long time, it created a lot of conflict in our marriage.

So I’m like, let’s go do this.

And then we’re going to do this.

And then when we’re done with that, we’re going to do these four things.

And he was like, cool.

Like it’s Saturday.

Can we take a little bit of a break?

And so I’ve had to learn to try to balance it.

And it’s been so wonderful for me to be married to a nine because I’ve discovered that I actually do need that.

Like I need to slow down.

I don’t know if I wasn’t married to him if I’d very much be aware of it.

Like if I was married to like an assertive number, like a three, seven or eight, I think I would just like be keeping up with them the whole time.

And I would probably burn out really, really fast.

So my hubby helps me like slow it down.

And because we’ve been married now for 28 years, I’ve learned how to do that by watching him and by just being like, oh, okay, let’s slow down a little bit and let’s take our time.

Having said that, I don’t need, and this is not a bragging thing either direction, but I don’t need the amount of time he does and that’s okay also.

Like I don’t need to slow down at the same amount he does.

And that doesn’t make me good and him bad or either direction.

So it’s okay if like he wants to sit there and want to show, and I want to be working on something on my computer for the business.

Like that’s okay.

There’s nothing wrong with that either.

So we’ve been trying to find the balance between all of it.

One of the things I have learned for sure, it’s not just the speed of how we do things, it’s the speed of how we process things.

So again, I’m not going to process things as fast as a three, seven, or eight, but I will process them and speak them especially because two love to talk.

I will speak them way faster than my hubby will.

And so I’ve learned like when we’re even having a conversation or in conflict, this is really helpful for me because I tend to just keep talking and like we got to get this fixed, we got to accomplish this, we got to figure this out.

But the more I go at him and keep talking, the more he tends to turtle and pull away.

And I didn’t know that.

Like I thought he was just ignoring me for the longest time until I learned the Enneagram, but he’s not.

I’m overwhelming him.

And he’s literally going into like fight, flight, or freeze.

And in his case, it’s freeze.

He’s like, I’m just freezing.

And so once I learned that about his pace, when we’re in a discussion that’s maybe a little more complicated and hard, I’ve learned, okay, I need to sit here and just shut up.

Like, I need to ask him a question and just shut up and wait for him to answer.

As a two, that is incredibly hard.

Like, a 10-second wait can fill like three days.

It’s just, especially like…

Yes, that seems like it would be very frustrating.

But it’s the most helpful thing in the world for him, because he does not feel safe when I just keep coming forward with like thoughts and questions.

I have to stop and I have to give him time.

And it’s not just him, like the other nines in my life, I’ve learned the same thing.

Like, I need to be able to ask them a question and then just sit back and allow them time without feeling shame and without feeling stressed out to actually think about the question and then answer whenever they’re ready.

When I knew that, it should totally change the dynamic of my friendships and my marriage between a two and a nine.

But it doesn’t just go that far.

I then also understand that if I’m having a conversation with an eight who thinks much faster than I do, if it’s possible for me to tell them, hey, you’re going to process this way faster than I am, so you’re going to have to give me a little extra time, then they’re more forgiving and understanding about it.

So if we understand how all of us are paced a little bit differently, even in these conversations and hard, we can have conflict, which I know is a bad word, to a nine, but we can have conflict without it turning into this big, low, massive fight, just because we understand each other.

Yeah, I love that.

So it sounds like it could really be beneficial within the workplace to know how to work as a team and to communicate expectations, not only for what you can expect from me, but, oh, wow, I see this person’s moving fast.

Like, I just need to know that that’s going to be something that I’m going to have to give myself grace on, but also let them know, hey, I need a little more time than you.

Yes, yes.

And they will totally be able to, again, really, if we just share those things, people will be able to understand.

And we always want to be careful, right?

We never want to use it as an excuse.

Like, I’m not going to be productive today because I just don’t feel like it.

I mean, that’s never ever what we’re going for.

Like, no, we can always be productive in some way at our jobs, but the way that I’m going to do it and the speed at which I’m going to do it will look very different for you.

But in the end, oftentimes, when we slow down in our jobs, the finished product is so much better.

So we need these four fives and nines who, like, aren’t as much in a hurry to, like, get to the end, to get to the finish line.

We desperately need them in our lives because when we hit that finish line with them, when we do it together, our product, whatever that happens to be, will be so much more well-rounded than if we don’t do it with them.

Yeah, that’s cool.

I’m sure, like, the growth process for you in knowing this was a big learning curve to some extent.

I mean, I feel like that’s been for me also, but I would imagine that you deal with a lot of, like, frustration and anger of, like, let’s get to this.

I know how to do it, and I know where we’re going, and I can do it on my own, but I really want to do it with you.

So I don’t want to necessarily leave you behind.

Like, what does that look like for you in dealing with that frustration and anger that I don’t think is bad?

It’s just part of who you are, learning to be patient with all the others, just as I could have the same frustration or anger over, gosh, you’re so fast, I can’t keep up with you, can you please slow down and not leave me behind?

But what does that look like for you?

Yeah, that’s absolutely a learning curve that I’m still…

I’m working on it.

I am truly working on it.

It is a bit of a challenge for me across the board, to learn to hopefully myself have more grace for all the different numbers, whether they move faster or slower than I do.

It’s understanding that in the end, they’re all gods.

Like every one of us is gods, and he wired us the way that he wired us on purpose.

And he purposely, intentionally put people in my life that are wired differently than me so that I can learn from them.

So I’ve tried to change my frustration to learning and have some more grace.

Having said that, I fail at it all the time.

Like all the time.

I was with some friends the other day.

I had given these wonderful ladies like an assignment for the next week, and we gathered again the next week.

And there’s a seven in my group who I completely adore, and she forgot about the assignment.

She was like, wait, we’re doing what now?

Oh, yeah, I know.

I totally spaced it.

I’m like, oh, come on.

You know, like I tend to totally lose.

Like, yeah, all grace, like all at once.

But yeah, we serve a God who is a God of forgiveness and a God of grace.

And so that’s one of the areas he’s always trying to grow me and all of it.

And I tend to be able to have grace for others and some of it.

But then, like, if I mess up like that, what I then do is like you talked about, I just sit there and beat myself up.

And that’s not what God, like shame is a huge thing for certain numbers.

It’s a huge thing for everybody, thing for everybody, but it’s a huge thing for certain numbers.

And I happen to be one of those numbers.

So like I process almost everything if I’m not careful through the lens of shame.

So when I do tend to like lose my own temper or be frustrated or angry, like immediately almost like I’ll start to feel shame.

And that’s not, we don’t serve a god of shame.

And so I have to take back to him and say, Lord, this is how I’m feeling.

Can you help me understand the why behind it and speak your truth into it?

So it’s constantly me going to God because of how I feel like I’m not enough in some way, but also going to God and saying, Lord, please help me to have that same grace and understanding for other people.

Yeah, that’s awesome.

I love how it’s a mix of like, hey, let’s learn how to love the people around us.

But then also like, how do I love myself better and accept who God has created me to be?

What about like the bigger picture, like our culture in general?

People talk every day, all day about how our culture is fast-paced, and we feel like we can’t keep up with paying the bills and can’t work enough.

We can’t, you know, do all the things we need to do as parents, as husbands and wives, as, you know, just women trying to get all of this stuff done.

Can you talk a little about some of those cultural…

Yeah, absolutely.

So Susan Stabeel, who kind of nicknamed herself the Enneagram godmother, and she should.

She’s wonderful in all kinds of ways.

She’s one of those authors of The Road Back to You.

She says that we live in, as Americans, we live in a three, an Enneagram three and an Enneagram eight culture.

And I totally agree with her.

We look at these people who move fast and whose brains just process quickly and who are not afraid to take the steps into trying new things.

We look at them and we idolize them.

And our whole culture moves that direction.

We’re like, we got to do, we got to do, we got to do.

And I, yeah, I sit there and I, I mean, I look at the Bible and I don’t see that in the Bible.

Like, that’s not exactly how God talks to his people.

Like, he does have his people go do things.

Like, they don’t just sit around and, you know, do nothing all day long.

Like, no, he absolutely says go and, like, he tells us to go into all the world and baptize and get people to know about him.

But more than anything before that, he says come to me, be with me.

And that’s a posture of rest and a heart of bowing, not of accomplishing, because God cares way more about who we are than about what we do.

And yet society says that’s absolutely not true.

It cares way more about what we do than who we are.

And I don’t often see a ton of good that comes from that, because then what happens is the opposite of character growth.

And that’s what all of this is about.

We’re trying to grow in the character, the original design that God created us to be.

And yet the world around us in America tells us we have to go and accomplish and just become whoever you need other people to be, or whoever other people need you to be.

That’s what you need to worry about, how they perceive you.

And that’s when these masks, these personas, this personality comes into play.

And it can actually do us a lot of harm.

Now, if you go into other cultures throughout the world, they’re not going to be 3, 8 dominant.

They’re going to probably be dominant in another number, which can have its own downfalls, for sure.

So that’s why I believe we all are in it together.

Like I, as a 2, I need a 9, and I need a 7, and I need a 3, and I need a 1.

Like I need them in my life to help me understand these different paces and these different ways of seeing the world.

And we learn from each other, and with all of them, we have a more well-balanced view, for sure.

But culture can put a lot of shame on us.

Here’s the thing, 3s and 8s also have that shame, just so you know.

Like they can’t move fast enough to keep up with it either.

We are in a success-based culture, and so when that’s the case, like nobody can.

They’re just better at the world perceiving that they are inside of themselves.

They fill it too.

It doesn’t run everything for them like it does for some of us, but it really is still there for them.

So that’s when we have to stop trying to perform for the world and look back and say, okay, Lord, what do you have for me?

Who do you call me to be?

What is my place in the world?

What is my pace in the world that you gave for me?

And rest in that.

That is so interesting because I always kind of view the fast-paced people that they’re like aware of how much they’re accomplishing and they’re like satisfied with it or something.

But what you’re saying is actually the opposite, that even when they’re accomplishing a ton, it’s never enough.

And that same pressure is something that I deal with, something that they deal with, something that you deal with.

And it’s all something that we have to, it seems kind of not just combat, but really let go of in order to walk in who God has called us to be.

Yeah, it’s really not a matter of like, what else do I have to pick up?

It’s what can I lay down, God?

Like, what can I lay down?

That’s really in the end, his.

Like, all of it is his.

It’s not ours.

And so I have to ask myself all the day, all days, every single day, all day long, Lord, am I doing right now, am I doing it for me or am I doing it for you?

Whatever it happens to be that I’m doing, like, what is my motivation of my heart for what I’m currently doing right now?

Yeah, it’s gonna be a lifelong process for me to be able to someday, hopefully, say, Lord, I’m really doing it more for you than for me.

I’m not there quite yet, but I’m working on it.

And that’s, he wants the posture of our heart to be towards him, not towards what other people think of us.

It’s a challenge.

It is such a challenge.

I feel like that one, no matter how good we get at it, it’s always gonna be one of those temptations for us too.

Feel like we want to prove ourselves to not just to the people around us, maybe to God, maybe to ourselves even.

That can be exhausting just internally, but also just running ourselves every day.

I feel like some people don’t even, aren’t even really aware that they’re doing it either.

And so they can be kind of feeling like, well, I’m just paying the bills, I’m just doing the stuff, and not really realizing that there’s this motivator underneath.


So it sounds like that’s something, the identity piece that you talked about a little, that you really go in into your coaching.


Yes, because I mean, let’s be true, truthful, like everything has to get done.

I mean, the bills have to get paid, dinner has to get made, which is, you know, dinner, and making dinner is like my least favorite thing to do.

But these things still have to happen.

So it’s not like we can’t just not do them.

Life has to continue, and it has to go on.

But it’s the posture of our heart when we are doing it.

That’s really what it continues to come back to for me repeatedly.

Like, Lord, when I’m cooking dinner, am I talking to God while I’m cooking dinner?

Because he just wants to be with us in all the things that we do.

And the more that we are with him, the more that I am talking to God while I’m driving in the car, and people in the cars around me might think that I’m crazy.

I don’t know.

But the more I spend time with him when I’m cooking dinner, driving in the car, going on a walk or whatever, and just are paying the bills and being like, Lord, just thank you.

Thank you that there’s money right here to pay this bill right now.

That’s what he wants.

That’s how we grow, is really, really through understanding that he is with us every single second of every day, and he created every single one of us in a very unique, purposeful way.

And so when we understand this identity and who he made us to be, it’s not about a job, a vocation.

It’s not about what church we go to or what kind of music we listen to or our sexuality.

None of that makes us us or little aspects of us, but it’s God who made us us.

And so when we understand like, Lord, this is who you wired me to be.

I’m going to walk that out in every aspect of my life and just show me what you want today to look like.

That’s where we find freedom.

That’s where we cannot compare ourselves quite as much, because in the end, we know who we are.

God’s, we’re gods.

He created us for this plan and purpose.

That’s what matters.

So whether we’re collecting the garbage or we’re the head chef at some fancy restaurant in some big city, it really doesn’t matter.

We’re walking in who God made us to be, and that’s where we find freedom.

That’s so cool.

I love that because it’s a really good picture of kind of finding the peace within the chaos.

That’s a big theme I talk about all the time.

And I feel like that’s a really great example of whatever we’re doing in the middle of the day, stopping, giving ourselves grace, and then connecting with our Creator and letting Him kind of not only fill us up, but remind us of who we are, that we’re not created just to run ourself ragged in the world, but there is more and there’s a bigger picture.

Yeah, beautifully said.

Well, thank you so much.

I wanted to hear a little bit about this book that you’re doing, and wondered if you share a little about what that is.

Well, at this moment, and hold this lightly because, you know, rough draft and all.

Yeah, I’m calling it All the Difference.

And I’m calling it that because I truly do believe that when you know who God is and who He made you to be, it makes all the difference in your life.

You start walking in the freedom of your authentic self, your kingdom identity, and you stop worrying so much about what the world tells you you need to be.

And so that’s what it’s about.

It’s really going down to the basics of understanding God, and then the basics of understanding ourselves and Enneagram.

And then why on earth, like I started to talk about why we need each other, and why we’re called to do it together, and how some conflict could arise in that, and how we kind of can help understand each other, just like we talked about a little bit, go through the lens of the Enneagram, and some ways people see it.

So that’s what the book is about, is God and self and others.

That’s cool.

I can’t wait to read it.

It’s going to be awesome.

I’m so glad.

I can’t wait for you to read it either.

We’ll get there.

I know.

It’s going to be so exciting.

So tell just our listeners a moment how they can connect with you, especially if they’re either wanting to understand what their Enneagram number is and they’re wanting to receive coaching from you and just dive into finding more grace from themselves and all of the things that we talked about regarding identity.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I have a website right now.

It’s just called


And there you can find out all the information that you want to find out about how I do it and what I offer and what it might look like.

That’s kind of broken down on there too.

And as time continues to go on, I will hopefully do social and all the other things.

But right now, it’s really the website.

It’s the same email too.

If you want to just email me directly, it’s OriginalDesignCoaching at

And that’s another way to reach me.


I’m so glad.

Well, thank you so much for being on my first episode as my guest.

It was great.

And as you know, I could talk to you about this stuff all day long, but I had to contain it to one episode.

So I hope that there’s more episodes to come where we get to talk more about personality in relation to all this stuff.

Me too.

Thank you so very much, Krystal.

I hope you enjoyed this episode today.

I have a free gift for you.

It is a guide of eight ways to incorporate rest into your busy life.

You can find it on under downloadables, and I hope it’s helpful.

Have a great day.

Notice: The above transcript is copyright of Fortify Coaching and Krystal Burke. Content may not be copied and pasted, re-used, re-destributed or otherwise used without attribution and a link to this website without written permission. 

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In the first episode of the Fortify & Grow Podcast, Krystal Burke talks about what she seeks to help her clients cultivate the most: fortitude. In this brief episode, she describes what fortitude is and what it means to grow in it. She also shares the heart behind her coaching and consulting practice, Fortify Coaching, and what you can expect in the coming episodes of Fortify & Grow.

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